59: Taking the work out of networking (especially for introverts)

We all know networking is a big part of making a career change. But does it feel like work to you? My guest today can help make it easier.

Karen Wickre is the author of Taking the Work Out of Networking. Karen has spent 30 years in tech as a writer, editor, and communications professional, and has been called “the best-connected Silicon Valley figure you’ve never heard of" because of her superpower—connecting people. 

If you’re making a career change and dread the idea of networking, especially if you're an introvert, Karen offers a fresh perspective. In this episode, she shares practical strategies and mindset shifts to help you connect with others more naturally at in-person events, on LinkedIn, and within your current company. 

Episode Highlights:

• Why networking feels like work for many of us, especially introverts

• Organic ways to network at in-person events, like conferences

• Knowing what works for you and what doesn't

• Low-key ways to follow up with people you've met 

• Accessing your "brain trust" to change careers

• Small peer groups for career changers

• Reaching out to new people on LinkedIn so it's non-transactional

• The perfect amount of time to chat with someone new

• Embracing your quiet side and strengths

• Changing your mindset about networking to make it easier

• How to network within your company for new career paths

Find Karen Wickre at:

Website: https://karenwickre.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenwickre/

Book: Taking the Work Out of Networking: Your Guide to Making and Keeping Great Connections

Resources Mentioned: 

Never Search Alone: https://www.neversearchalone.org/

Want more advice? Check out these additional episodes: 

Ep 50: An inside track to a career change

Ep 24: Using your quiet strengths as an introvert to change careers

Music credit: TimMoor from Pixabay

Podcast info:
What's your career switch? What do you think about this episode and the show? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lixandra: Hi, everyone. I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you're considering or working on. Maybe you're trying to switch industries or professions or break out on your own and start a business. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on challenges that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. So I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of advice that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

Networking. Just the word makes me cringe with thoughts of a loud venue, maybe at a bar where I'm supposed to mingle and try to meet as many people as possible for it to be a successful event. At least that's what's going through my head because networking for me honestly feels like work. And as an introvert, when I'm done attending a networking event, I am exhausted and I definitely need time to recover. 

Does networking feel like work for you too? My guest today knows all about that. Karen Wickre is the author of Taking the Work Out of Networking. Karen has been called the best connected Silicon Valley figure you've never heard of. She has worked for 30 years in technology businesses as a writer, editor, and communications professional, including long stints at Google and Twitter. Her longtime passion, though, is connecting people, which led her to write her book, detailing ways to build an authentic personal network. 

If you're making a career change and dread the idea of networking, whether you're an introvert or not, Karen offers a fresh perspective. In this episode, she shares practical strategies and mindset shifts to help you connect with others more naturally at in-person events, on LinkedIn, and even within your current company. 

Hi, Karen, thanks for joining us today. Our topic for this episode is how to take the work out of networking, especially for introverts who are making a career change. Are you an introvert?

Karen: I am. I would, uh, it turns out everything is on a spectrum like everything else. So apparently, I'm a social introvert. I'm very sociable. I like doing things with people, but to recharge and to, you know, regain energy and go out the next day, I definitely need alone time, quiet time, kind of processing time. And I don't like to pack too many things into a day.

Lixandra: I myself am also an introvert. And yes, I can relate in that I do much better one-on-one, just like we are now. I've also learned that for myself, I'm good with up to four people. Once it hits the five people mark, I'm like a turtle. I just want to go inside my shell. And I prefer to listen. Networking events are really hard for me because usually, you know, it's at a big venue like a conference and just the thought of a crowd and mingling, it just makes me dread the whole thing.

Karen: Yeah.

Lixandra: So let's start there. Why does networking feel like work for many people, especially those of us who are introverts?

Karen: Well, I think there are a couple of reasons. I have to say, so many people have said to me, I'm an extrovert and I also hate networking. So everybody hates this idea wherever they are in that spectrum. I think part of the reason is we tend to think about networking when we're looking for a new job or a new connection or new idea or something introduction. And so we feel like, oh, I have to bother someone, ask a favor, I have to put myself out and I'm vulnerable because I need something. Somebody else has the answer and they're busy and important. That's kind of the general framework that people go into it with. But I think, you know, the other thing that people hate is this feeling of it's either superficial when you're, you know, in a group meeting people and you have your little elevator pitch or transactional, like, well, I need something from you. And so I'm, I'm here to talk to you about it. So both of those could be true, but they don't have to be true for when you're connecting even to brand new people. And then I think the other thing is these, a conference is one thing, but a networking event that is designed as a networking event to mix and mingle, as you say, that is a stressor for sure because everybody's there, you know, thinking I got to collect business cards or, you know, follow up with contacts but also say some pithy valuable thing in the three minutes that you might cross paths with somebody. Then you feel you're having to perform, you have performance anxiety, kind of all that. And so I'd say networking events in and of themselves may not be the top activity you want to pursue. If you go to a conference or a workshop, sure, then you already have something a little more in common in terms of the subject matter. As opposed to just hi, we're all here looking for a job or, you know, a lead. And so having some kind of common interest or focus. That that helps because then you have an opening to start a brief conversation with somebody about that. Right. And then that puts you more on equal footing.

Lixandra: Yeah, I'm just thinking of my own experience. For example, I went to a podcast conference last year and the popular networking advice, right, is make sure you meet as many people as possible or, you know, at least try to.

Karen: Yeah.

Lixandra: Because they did have social events at night, like they had this like miniature golf thing. So they had some social networking events. And I'm thinking, you know, well, I'm here, I'm in a different city, I pay to come here, I travel to come here. So might as well take advantage and go to all the events and meet as many people as possible. But that did not work for me. It was too much. I mean, I'm sure people do it.

Karen: I mean, some do, and listen, some enjoy that too, I think, at a conference to go kind of all out. But as you say, introverts have to recharge some time.

Lixandra: Yes, it was exhausting. I mean, again, I pushed myself because I was there, I had to travel there. And as a freelancer, I was there to also make contacts for possible work. So I was putting all that pressure on myself and yeah, I was really tired by the end of the night.

Karen: Understood, yeah, I can see that. So I think one bit of advice is to talk yourself out of this notion that you have to meet everybody and do everything. If you come away with three, four, five contacts where you've had a bit of a conversation, the key to really that kind of networking at some external event is about the follow-up, which again goes back to one-to-one exchanges. So if you meet someone interesting in the coffee line and you talk for two minutes and say, oh, we have something in common, or can I, I'd like to hear more from you about what you're doing. Can I follow up? You're not going to do all your sort of networking at the networking event anyway. So can I follow up? And then follow up within a few days of the event. But this idea that has to be everybody, I think pay attention to the serendipity of who you might run into and have a little spark with, you know, something interesting and memorable about them or something you want to know more about how they do what they do. Those are the ones. And maybe that is three, four or five people.

Lixandra: So quality over quantity.

Karen: Yes.

Lixandra: And yes, eventually I did give myself permission to be like, you know, whoever you connect with is fine. Good.

Karen: Yeah.

Lixandra: But funny, you mentioned the coffee line, these little things, right? Like, so maybe the bathroom line?

Karen: Yep. sitting next to someone before the speaker begins, right? Or after the speaker answer, something like that is where you have those little moments of connection. That is again, one-to-one.

Lixandra: Yeah. It's low pressure. It's one-on-one. It's organic.

Karen: Exactly. The other thing to remember about these events is you do have to pace yourself for your energy. So I found, I go to a couple of conferences that are, have this sort of, You know, we start the day at, you know, eight with coffee and then there's a party in the evening. I want to give it my all during the day if it's, you know, speakers and whatnot. But once the it's time for the parties, I know I'm not going to enjoy being in a super noisy ballroom with a DJ and people shouting in my ear. I'm just not going to get anything from that. I might walk through once and say hi to a couple of people, but I am almost famous for not showing up at the nighttime events I've had it. And I want to be ready the next morning.

Lixandra: So knowing yourself right, and knowing what works for you and what doesn't.

Karen: Yeah, that's right. You know, and some might say, well, okay, I'm good in the morning, I fade in the afternoon, maybe, you know, step out for an hour or depending on what the event is, you know, it could be that you find someone interesting to talk to, and you both skip a panel discussion and sit and talk and make a kind of deeper connection. That's, that's great.

Lixandra: And how should you follow up after a conference, since you said earlier that that's really important?

Karen: It is about the follow up, and then the follow on, you know, where you, if you all talked about something interesting in particular, and then a month later, you see an article or a new podcast or something of interest, you can send a note to that person and say, I have thought of you when I saw this, thought about our conversation, hope you're well. You're not asking for a meeting or a favor. You're just keeping in touch. And so those little moments, those touch points help strengthen that connection.

Lixandra: Yeah, thinking back, that's where I also had trouble because I did connect with a handful of people at the conference and I was excited when I got home and I did connect with everyone on LinkedIn. But by the holidays, and this was a summer conference, I wasn't in touch with anybody.

Karen: Listen, it's not a daily or weekly thing or even monthly necessarily. I mean, it's intermittent with people. Maybe it's a quarterly or bimonthly kind of Note to yourself, do I want to reach out to somebody? Do I want to have a follow-up conversation, you know, about a particular thing?

Lixandra: All right. I'm going to have to remember that myself. Now, when we first spoke, Karen, you brought up the term brain trust as a way to start reaching out to people. Tell us about that.

Karen: Brain trust is more about who are kind of the key people you trust. So for example, You don't want to go too wide with thinking about a new career, right? Or a new field that you want to get into. And you're not going to post anything publicly, but maybe you have three, four, five people that you trust, that know you, and you would send them an email, maybe individually, and say, I'd like to get your advice on this. You know, you in particular. Doesn't have to be the Brain Trust as a group, but it might be some key people that you tend to get good advice from, that you know listen to you and that know you, have a good sense of you. It could be friends, but I think more often might be people you've trusted in work settings and been in the trenches with.

Lixandra: Great. So what else can we do to take the work out of networking when making a career change?

Karen: The idea is to sort of break down the tasks, the things that one does around networking so that it's not this sort of impenetrable wall of strangers and this solo quest on your part, right? So the more you can understand that, honestly, people are always looking for new ideas and connections and contacts for themselves anyway. So you're not alone. In fact, I'll give a little plug here to a friend of mine, Phil Terry, has written a book called Never Search Alone. It's a book full of good advice. And his main point is don't search alone. And so he's created basically volunteer groups of people. They call themselves job search councils, and it's basically peer groups of people who are looking for jobs. They're kind of accountability partners and You know, they report in, I think, I think it's maybe they meet weekly, but anyway, it's all volunteer. It's all across the country. So it's an interesting model that really focuses on don't do this by yourself.

Lixandra: Wow. I love that. Maybe Phil can be a guest. Where can we learn more?

Karen: I think it's neversearchalone.org is the, is where the book is. And that has info about the job search councils too. And, and again, I mean, so having that kind of peer support group is different than, you know, a networking event, right? These are people that you're like, you know, you can kind of lay your hair down with.

Lixandra: Definitely. Something too with networking events, right? It's like, you gotta be like put together.

Karen: You gotta be on.

Lixandra: Right, right. You gotta be on, exactly. But here with a peer group, you could definitely be more vulnerable and open.

Karen: And then everybody's kind of rooting for each other.

Lixandra: Right. Going back, like you were saying, if you're making a career change and you look up people on LinkedIn, which again, the popular advice is find people in the industry that you possibly want to work in and talk to them. But again, that's like stranger to stranger.

Karen: Yes.

Lixandra: And we had talked about how to reach out to new people and not make it all about yourself.

Karen: So, yes, it's important. I mean, the way people often think of this, I need something, I need an answer, I need an introduction. It's like, I'm just waiting to blurt out my, you know, my question, my need. And if you think about it, we all like to be approached in a bit more conversational way with a little small talk, because think of the reaction you would have when you see someone who's, you know, comes up and you say, oh, That person wants something from me because they always want something from me. A lot of us want to be that person, right? We all, we recognize it when we see it in others. So don't be that person. Instead, it's just the same as like at a job interview where you can have a little bit of small talk around the edges. You know, it makes things more friendly. You find out maybe a bit about what you have in common. If you have people in common. That's often a good sort of icebreaker. And it doesn't have to take very long to sort of sort that out. And then you can get to, well, I'm so glad to meet you. A little flattery is also good, obviously, with a stranger. To say, I know about you, and my question is specific to something you know about, you're an expert in, or you have the contact. Can you tell me more about that? Or is there a way I can follow up with you? You can do this by email if you're not in person with someone, but the idea is, you know, could I take 20 minutes of your time, 15 minutes? And typically, people will go over whatever the time limit is, as long as it's short, because they want, people want to help each other. We're naturally inclined to want to help in some way, but you're going to want to help more if there's a little bit of kind of social lubrication around the conversation, even if you're asking a favor.

Lixandra: I have found, yes, 20 minutes is like the perfect time, and you're right, people will go over. But maybe it's, yeah, something human, but like 20 minutes, anybody can do 20 minutes. It's not a half hour. It's not a half hour, that's a little too much. And 15 minutes, I think is unrealistic. We're definitely going to talk for more than 15 minutes.

Karen: Because it takes a little while to do a bit of the small talk.

Lixandra: Yeah, and I've done that too with like, as a podcast producer, I have to reach out to potential guests, and I always ask for 20 minutes to talk to someone.

Karen: Yeah.

Lixandra: What about, again, in your book, you cover the embrace your quiet side approach. How do we do that?

Karen: Well, as we touched on earlier, if you're not one for kind of big crowds and big events, I mean, I'm totally with you on that. So to sort of play to your own strengths and say, you know what, I'm better in the mornings, or I know I'm going to flag around three o'clock, so I need to kind of step away then for 20 minutes and regroup or something like that. So it's, it's basically playing to your own strengths, which, which are your, you know, what, what you need to do to feed your quiet side and to get back to sort of equilibrium, I guess. But introverts, I think have a really special skill in that I believe we're good We're good people watchers and observers of behavior, partly because we don't want to reveal ourselves too quickly or too much. And so even as a kid, before I had any names for anything, I would make a game over someone saying to me, you know, tell me everything. Tell me what's new. Tell me what. And I'd say, no, you go first. Like I want to hear more from you and that will give me a level of comfort for how much I want to reveal and, you know, what kinds of things, like where the commonalities might be. But you have to go first. And I mean, I just literally thought this is a game. Nobody else knew I was playing it. But that gave me then the comfort to not blurt out too much or not. You know, it just I and even maybe it's a trust issue, but I just felt like Let me let me hear from you first about where you're coming from. And then I can kind of go there to that point with you, because I feel like empathy and having this sort of ability to observe kind of go together.

Lixandra: I call that quote unquote reporter mode. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm putting the spotlight on the other person.

Karen: That's right, that's right.

Lixandra: And I'm the one throwing out the questions. And I could be commenting, but definitely the other person is in the spotlight.

Karen: It's flattering for them also, by the way.

Lixandra: Yes, because people love to talk about themselves.

Karen: And some of us not so much until we're really, really trusting and really have all the reassurances we could want that it's going to be OK.

Lixandra: Funny, yeah, it goes back to what I said earlier about the turtle. Like I'm in my little shell and I prefer to listen and I'll, you know, come out of my shell as I feel more comfortable.

Karen: Exactly.

Lixandra: I want to be sure to bring this up. Earlier you described that it could feel like we're bothering people when we reach out for networking and that it could feel transactional. How can we change our thinking so that it's easier to contact new people?

Karen: I'm telling you, we're all going to need some kind of help or guidance or information from somebody we don't know about something we want to find out. Sometime in life, this is going to happen to everybody. So everybody can be an expert or, you know, give some information and everybody needs it. So it's this idea that, you know, everyone else has everything figured out and I don't, and that's why I'm so vulnerable. Nobody has everything figured out and everybody will need some kind of advice, sometime, or an introduction about something. It's a long game, but it's kind of a give and take along the way. You know, if you have that mindset that we all have, you know, unanswered questions and unanticipated needs that are going to come up over time, then, you know, we're all kind of in the same boat. Yes, there are certainly more important people who are subject matter experts But even they are going to have these things. So we all have something to give. I have talked to groups of students or new grads, and they will say, I'm nobody. I don't have a network. I'm not that important. But I want to make a connection. I want an introduction. But I have nothing to offer. And I say, to me, it's not true, because you're interested. You're curious. You're not asking for a favor. kind of seeking information, which again, flattering to the bigger, more important person, so-called, but also that person hopefully recognizes this is a gift, that someone is curious and interested in what I've done or how I got to where I've gotten or something like that. If you run across someone who's not appreciative of that, well, that's not someone that's gonna help. So, move on from that one.

Lixandra: Yeah, yeah. But you're right. I think it is human nature to want to help. And I'm going through that now myself because I started this podcast in 2021 and I've been chatting with a new podcaster. She recently started her own podcast. And I am so open to like helping her find guests. And, you know, I'm just so happy to help. You know, like I'm happy to pay it forward because I got help.

Karen: Pay it forward. That's important.

Lixandra: Yeah. Just today I was putting her in touch with a potential guest, happy to connect the two. And I was like excited as if it was me, you know? And I'm happy to connect them. So like you called yourself a connector, but I don't consider myself a connector. So the fact that I could connect these two people was very satisfying. Well, maybe you are. Yeah. And I feel like if I connect the two and they record an episode together and it's out there, it's kind of like her success is my success.

Karen: It's like, you know, you want to kind of share the wealth and share the wisdom and kind of keep people going on their paths.

Lixandra: All right. As we wrap up, Karen, how can listeners find you? And tell us a little bit more about your book.

Karen: So I have a website, just my name, karenwickre.com. I am on LinkedIn, where I have too many contacts, but a lot of interesting contacts. And I do look all the time because I help other people find connections they want to make that I might have. So that's the sort of connector part. The book, the paperback is the newer version and it's called Taking the Work Out of Networking. I did add a chapter in the paperback about how to network within a company because job hunting is one thing where networking comes into play. But people inside, especially a larger company, they often struggle to meet people outside of their immediate team or if they want to explore a different area or department or something like that. It can be hard to do outside your regular schedule. So I did write a chapter about that because I worked at Google for nine years. It was large when I left. It's much, much larger now. the bigger it gets, it's harder to sort of break into meeting new people who could be great colleagues and allies down the line. And so anyway, the new chapter in the paperback is about that too, just figuring out how to make connections across teams and divisions. Can you give us a teaser? Yeah, I mean, some of the same things about doing a little bit of research on people, which is in theory easier within a company, because you can see their, you know, intranet information, their personal, whatever, maybe what they're working on, and maybe who you know in common. But ideally, most companies, I would hope, would welcome this notion of, hey, I work in another department. You know, we have a common friend in so and so. But I'm really interested in what you're doing. I'd like to learn more about how your team works, maybe in relation to mine. Maybe that makes you smarter in your current job. But I'm thinking of changing a field or changing direction. Could we have a coffee, virtual or otherwise, 20 minutes-ish, just to learn more about who you are, what you like about what you do, or that team, or how you guys make decisions, any part of that. And that's a good way to start making those connections. And it can have benefit in your current job and what you're doing, because I think it's an asset when people in a company have contacts across teams. So I think it makes you just a better employee and colleague. But in addition, then you might learn about, oh, you know what? Here's a different way I could go here.

Lixandra: I actually had a recent episode with someone who made their career change within the company. Yeah. And so you don't necessarily have to leave. Right, right. I'll be sure to link that episode in the show notes. 

Thanks to Karen Wickre for being our guest today. You can find Karen and her book, Taking the Work Out of Networking, on her website, KarenWickre.com. You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. 

So what's your career switch? Are you motivated to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know, along with any feedback you have about the show. Let us know too, if you'd like to be a guest. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at careerswitchpod. And please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.