50: An inside track to a career change

Sometimes you don’t have to go far to make a career switch. My guest today is a great example of how to change careers without changing companies. 

Mia Villarreal went from social media strategist to product marketing manager—within the same organization—in only a couple of years. 

In this episode, Mia shares how she first got into VMware, a global software developer, in 2020 as a contractor—a move that gave her access to the company culture and cross-functional teams before she was even a permanent employee. 

Mia walks us through the inside track she took to change careers within VMware—from leveraging in-house platforms to tapping into her internal network. 

She also recalls how her mentors and trusted colleagues helped her navigate her impostor syndrome about transitioning to product marketing when she had no direct experience. 

Episode Highlights:

• Getting your foot in the door as a contractor

• Is your company culture conducive to a career change?  

• Accessing in-house resources

• Getting help with impostor syndrome 

• How to ask your manager for support with switching roles

• What to keep an eye out for possible openings within a company

• Setting up coffee chats – how to approach people and what to cover

• What to do in the first 30, 60, and 90 days in a new role

• Leaning into your strengths when making a career switch

Resources Mentioned: 

Product Marketing Alliance: https://www.productmarketingalliance.com/

CliftonStrengths Assessment: https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/252137/home.aspx

Career coach Alicia Wolfe: https://www.integratewell.co/

Additional Episodes:

Need more help with impostor syndrome? Check out these episodes:

Ep 49: Need some A.I.R. with your career change?

Ep 11: Impostor syndrome and other roadblocks to a career change

Music credit: TimMoor from Pixabay

Podcast info:
What's your career switch? What do you think about this episode and the show? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lixandra: Hi, everyone. I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you're considering or working on. Maybe you're trying to switch industries or professions or break out on your own and start a business. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on challenges that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. So I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of advice that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

Sometimes you don't have to go far to make a career switch. My guest today is a great example of how to change careers without changing companies. Mia Villareal went from social media strategist to product marketing manager all within the same organization in only a couple of years. In this episode, Mia shares how she first got into VMware, a global software developer, in 2020 as a contractor, a move that gave her access to the company culture and cross-functional teams before she was even a permanent employee. Mia walks us through the inside track she took to change careers within the company, from leveraging in-house platforms to tapping into her internal network. She also recalls how her mentors and trusted colleagues helped her navigate her imposter syndrome about transitioning to product marketing when she had no direct experience. Hi, Mia. Thanks for joining us today. Let's dive in. What were you doing before your career switch to product marketing?

Mia: So previously, before I did my career switch, I was working as a social media strategist for VMware. And in 2020, during the pandemic, actually, I started out as a full-time contractor at VMware. Before that, I was working at media agencies for the first four years of my career. I was doing media planning and buying and brand strategy. And that was a really good foundation to my career because I got to work cross-functionally with all these different teams across publishing, across vendors, internal teams as well. putting together media plans and strategies. And that gave me a really good foundation that I could leverage in my career in tech. So in 2020, started off at VMware completely remote. I worked for the first two years as a social media strategist. I was writing copy for social media posts. I was helping assist with blogs across the product marketing teams that I worked with. So I got to be more in the weeds and got to understand more of our products across portfolio in more depth. And also got to interact with the different community members across the social media landscape that were helping create a lot of this content for us too, that was more user generated.

Lixandra: And what got you thinking about switching to product marketing?

Mia: So I got to see on a different side, being on the client side now, how the products kind of evolved and what made our customers tick. And that's what really spurred me to then explore a career path in product marketing. where I could actually launch a product from the ground up, where I could actually interact with our customers more one-on-one, whereas in my social media role, I was more so looking at the product from the surface level and understanding just the basics because we had to write, copy, and create content across. many different products that we just didn't have the time to go in depth like you could in a product marketing role. So that's what spurred me to really get more involved and start exploring what a career product marketing would look like. And that's where I'm at today. So I've really been excited about where that career path has taken me.

Lixandra: Yeah. And just so we get a better idea, what kind of products were you working with?

Mia: So at VMware, we had a lot of multi-cloud and hybrid sort of products. The product that I was working on, there's actually two, we had a blockchain product that was more so under our office of the CTO. And this was like more of like the innovative side of the business where they were building products from the ground up. So like nowadays what you would think of how Gen AI products are starting to really grow and be elevated within companies, you can think of it like that. So started off working on our blockchain product, and I was building the enterprise product and go to market strategy for that as our first product marketer that joined the team. I then evolved into our modern application industry space. So this is more so if you think of software that helps run all of these platforms across credit card companies, governments, retailers, you name it, it helps their transactions go through in a seamless sort of manner and helps a lot of systems stay online. So we're helping build the software and the applications that developers and software engineers need to build in order to make sure that their company's applications stay online and running. So those are the two main products that I worked on for the most part.

Lixandra: And these two products were once you transitioned into product marketing? Yes. And just to go back to when you were a social media strategist, what products were you doing social media for?

Mia: So those were the two major products that were really elevated across the company at the time. So because of company priorities and shifts between what the focus was going to be in that fiscal year, I would say modern application, And the hybrid cloud approach were the main two products that we were told to focus on.

Lixandra: Got it. So how long were you working as a social media strategist at VMware before you switched?

Mia: I was on the social media and digital marketing team for two years. So from 2020 to 2022, and I actually joined as a full-time contractor, like I mentioned earlier. And the way that I got in was I worked with a recruiter. And the recruiter said, hey, we do these contracts all the time. I know that you want a full-time role, but this is a good way to get your foot into the door without them hiring you as a full-time employee right off the bat. Because it was also a pretty interesting time in the job market, jobs were also really hard to come by in 2020. I decided that I was going to go the contractor route and it actually ended up working out well. I really enjoyed working with my team. We were all remotely distributed across the Bay area, Texas, Georgia. I was based in Los Angeles, so we all were in different time zones too. But it was interesting because you could see how it didn't really matter if you were in a distributed sort of environment. Everyone can easily get their work done if you're working remote. And I was able to prove to, to my leadership and my bosses, Hey, I can pick up and learn a role remotely. And, you know, you get to show, uh, your leadership to like, you have the drive and the ambition in order to excel in this role. So I felt like it was a really good experience to be able to kick off my career that way.

Lixandra: Yeah, I know with freelancing too, I think it's the best way to get your foot in the door. I mean, there's no commitment on either side. And it's also a good way for you to test them out and see how you like working there.

Mia: Right, exactly. And then too, if it were on the flip side, where, you know, say it wasn't a good fit, then you're not committed to staying there long term. Luckily in this case, it was a good fit and the contractor actually extended it past the, it was a one-year contract, past the one-year contract. So I stayed two years. And then when they were eventually able to get headcount, that's when I was able to convert to a full-time employee.

Lixandra: Great. So let's get into your switch to product marketing while you were working at VMware. You're actually my first guest who made their career switch within the same company. I did have another guest who got their MBA through their employer, but he had to actually leave the organization to change his career. So first of all, why did you decide to stay at VMware and try to transition into product marketing?

Mia: I really could relate to the company culture of VMware. VMware before the acquisition, uh, recently was very much centered around employee appreciation and growth. They would have programs dedicated to employees, you know, learning and development. they would give you a stipend if you wanted to, you know, go back to school or take certain courses. And I really could relate to that because I was in a point in my career where I was like, okay, I'm either going to stay in social media strategy or consider going into another career path. And I need to be able to elevate myself in my career either way. On top of that too, the people that I worked with were all awesome. Like everyone is so kind and nice and caring. And even if you wanted to like, just get to know a different team, if you were interested in, you know, maybe pursuing engineering or product management or product marketing, in my case, everyone is very open to supporting and helping each other through like informal coffee chats. Especially during the pandemic, there was a strong online community. We call ourselves, um, or the community call themselves the V community. So everything had like a little V in front of it, kind of like a play on VMware. So there was like the V experts, the V community. They were strong across social media channels. So it just kind of went to show that even, even customers that didn't even work at VMware were also felt like they were, you know, a part of something bigger. So that's why I wanted to stay at the company because I felt like alongside growing in my career, it was also a place that I could really be proud of saying that I worked there and with across teams that were just awesome people to work with.

Lixandra: Great. So what were your first steps?

Mia: When I was getting up to the end of my contract, there wasn't any more headcount on the social media team, so I had to decide, okay, am I going to continue being part-time contractor, staying in this field? I took a look at what the career path also looked like. And it was either like you jump up to being like a senior social strategist or director. But I was also at the point where I didn't know if I wanted to just do copywriting for social media by itself. Like I felt like I needed to get more in depth into knowing how a product is built from the ground up. I wanted to collaborate across more engineering teams and more technical teams. And in that role, I was only collaborating with a lot of the digital marketing teams and brand teams. So I started to just reach out to folks that I had already connected with within the company, which was actually pretty easy because I had access to like a lot of the company resources. So I just started to kind of pick people's brains through like informal coffee chats. I went on LinkedIn and I found people within product marketing in VMware. I just did like, you know, a LinkedIn search for that. just started reaching out that way. And they were actually very receptive and open to talking to me about their career path. And I found too, that a lot of people didn't, you know, just start off in product marketing. They started off doing something similar before that, and then they grew into working in product marketing. So it wasn't like a linear career path. So that made me feel like, okay, if they could do it, I could do it too. And I found too that a lot of the past experiences that I had in media strategy and media planning and social strategy were very similar strengths and skills like cross-functional collaboration, working across all these different teams to put together a plan from start to finish blended well into a product marketing role. So I was like, okay, I think this is where I need to go into the next part of my career. So when. There was an opening on the blockchain team. One of the people that I connected with had said, Hey, we have a, we have an opening. If you're interested, you know, let's chat. So it started off as like an informal coffee chat. I created actually a PowerPoint deck of how I would put together a product launch strategy for their product. And so they were really impressed by that. That's something that I actually got as a piece of advice from one of my other colleagues that said, hey, if you want to stand out, come with a little plan in place. So I think that also helped make the switch for me because it showed that I took the initiative to go ahead and put together a strategy beforehand.

Lixandra: Yeah, definitely. And when you found those folks on LinkedIn, Mia, did you reach out to them on LinkedIn or through Teams since you did have access to them internally?

Mia: Yes, it was internally. So I used LinkedIn as like my resource to start just, you know, searching for people within product marketing. And then I used our like internal chat platform to to reach out to them internally. If I were on the flip side, it would just be through LinkedIn because, you know.

Lixandra: But that's the advantage, right? Of reaching out within the company because it's more casual. And I would assume people are more receptive if it's internal. It's not the same as hearing from a stranger on LinkedIn.

Mia: I've even heard of people that have been in a situation, too, where they've just put time on people's calendars. They look at their calendars because they have access to them, and they just send them a calendar invite for a coffee chat. Neither they accept or they don't accept, but that's also a pretty bold way to put yourself out there.

Lixandra: Great. So always check if you have access to someone's calendar. Yes, that too. Okay. So a coworker you had had a coffee chat with let you know about this job opening on the blockchain team. You prepped a deck on the advice of another colleague, like you said, what thoughts did you have once this opportunity to switch actually was available to you?

Mia: I definitely had a wave of emotions because one, I didn't have experience in blockchain at all. Like my experience was, you know, watching a few YouTube videos, hearing about it in the news, and that was about it. So of course, like I had imposter syndrome thinking like there's no way that they would even consider me. It's a long shot. They need someone with actual blockchain experience to work in this role. On top of that, I hadn't worked in product marketing either. So I had like a double whammy. I felt like, you know, not in my favor. What helped you with those doubts? I had like a few mentors that I talked to that, you know, I've leaned on in the past when I'm interviewing and things like that. who have helped me kind of get outside of my head too, because I feel like that's a very easy thing to do is you start spiraling and thinking like, oh, I'm not able to do this. There's so many more qualified people. So I leaned on my mentors and colleagues that I really trusted. And something that I found that they all kind of said in one way or another is no one has all the answers. No one has all the experience. before they apply to every single role. You know, they look for, one, are you willing to learn? Do you have the drive and ambition to lead a team, to be a self-starter, which is also something very common in the tech industry is, you know, not everyone has answers and most people are also figuring things out as they go. And they really value people that are willing to figure out and ask the hard questions and help solve the problems. So they said, you can definitely, you know, mention like, hey, I don't have this experience, but these are other situations that I've been in that have been similar to me not having all the information up front, but this is how I helped solve similar problems. So I use that in my interview process a lot. And it also helped me build confidence in myself. when I'm in those situations and don't have all the experience or all the answers and have helped myself get through those challenging times.

Lixandra: Yeah, definitely. Sometimes, like you said, you have to step out of your own head because you get caught up. There's also that statistic about women applying for jobs, something like men apply for a job when they think they meet just a few of the requirements, but women apply only if they think they meet all of them. So a lot of the time women will think, okay, I can't do this, this and that, so I shouldn't even apply. yeah, the self-doubt definitely creeps in.

Mia: That's why it's helpful to have like a support system to lean on and help you get through, you know, especially like getting through times where you need some sort of advice or perspective on how to go about certain situations. So yeah, I definitely can relate to that feeling like, oh, I shouldn't apply to this role. I'm not qualified, but you know, nine times out of 10, you, uh, will probably get your hat in the ring and potentially be able to get in front of a recruiter or a hiring manager that way.

Lixandra: Bringing it back to making a career change within the company, you mentioned earlier that you had worked with other product marketing teams while you were doing social media. Did anyone on those teams or anyone on your social media team vouch for you since they were already familiar with your work?

Mia: Yeah, the way that it worked at VMware was if you were doing some sort of like internal transfer or contract to full-time employee conversion, if you wanted to apply, you put in your application, you have a meeting with the hiring manager. The hiring manager then asks you, is it okay if I reach out to your current boss and say like, Hey, this person is interviewing. Tell us feedback about them. Would you refer them? So that's what happened in my situation. And I wasn't sure, you know, how my, my current boss would go about that because there was conversations between me and him about converting me to a full-time employee, but I could tell that it wasn't leading anywhere because they didn't, they just didn't have the head count approval. So it wasn't a surprise that I was looking elsewhere within the company. When I had my one-on-one with my current boss, he said, hey, I talked to so-and-so who said you're interviewing for this role. I think it's great for you. I think this is an area that you're going to excel in. So I'm more than happy to vouch for you. And I have found that in other companies that I've worked at, that's not always the case. They have not always been supportive of you leaving the company. They look at it as, you know, you're betraying them. Why, why would you want to leave? You have such a good thing here. So when that happened, I knew that it was an even better company to want to work at and stay in. He ended up giving a good recommendation for me, and that also made a difference between the hiring manager deciding to give me an offer or not. I feel like when you have a good relationship with your boss, don't be afraid to voice, this is what I want to do. Just be open and upfront. You don't have to say like, hey, I'm interviewing, but you can just make it clear that this is what I want to do. And then the conversation should just naturally kind of go from there.

Lixandra: Mia, do you think it helped that you were a contractor? Because it's understandable, right? That you'd want a permanent position. And if there wasn't the headcount in social media, then it's understandable that you'd be looking elsewhere.

Mia: Definitely being a contractor was definitely more understandable in my situation. And I think if, if anyone is in a contract position, definitely look at the careers page within your internal company. start networking, you know, ahead of time before your contract's up, like, you know, even like three to six months before that, because you never know when a headcount space might open up. And then look at the teams that are also have the most revenue. That usually indicates that they're going to have a higher amount of headcount and will hire more. So that was another thing that I also was keeping in mind.

Lixandra: I would also say don't be shy. I'm just thinking about myself when I was freelancing for a magazine. The fact checker had quit so she was gone and I was brought in for eight weeks, like it was supposed to take about two months to hire somebody. And I was freelance, so I was definitely open to a full-time position, but I didn't say anything. I think it was because it was just kind of like the way I've been raised. It was just sort of like, you know, do a good job and hopefully someone will notice instead of speaking up. And thankfully somebody did notice after about six weeks, my manager did ask me like, Hey, are you looking for full time? And that's how I got the permanent position. But I got lucky because someone did notice, you know, my work, but that's definitely not the way to do it. Right. I mean, you should definitely speak up.

Mia: Yeah. And, and I can totally relate to you too, because I, I have like also been raised to kind of be more in the background. Be grateful for what you have. You don't need to speak up as much. That's just kind of like my upbringing too. So now that I'm in, you know, a sort of industry or career path where you do have to speak up and you do have to put yourself out there, otherwise no one else is going to do it for you. It's definitely like a mentality shift. And I've had to, you know, get out of my comfort zone so many times doing that, where I'm like, I hope I don't come across too strong in this LinkedIn message. I hope they don't think I'm bugging them. You just have to remember that people are always willing to help. And as long as you have what you want for your goals, what your vision, what you're looking for, people really appreciate that. And that goes a long way. in showing that you're a motivated and self-starting individual. So that's what I try and remind myself to when I'm also getting in my head too much thinking like, oh, am I being too much or I don't deserve this? So I try to remind myself that all the time.

Lixandra: Great. Thanks Mia for sharing that. Let's get into coffee chats for a bit. We hear about that all the time, like set up coffee chats with folks you want to network with. And you did that internally at your company. How did you approach people? How long were your coffee chats and what did you cover?

Mia: I would keep the messages pretty short. I would just, you know, say, hey, my name is Mia. I came across your profile or I understand that you work in product marketing or whatever the industry is or the field is. I'm actually interested in making a career change or a pivot into that field, and I would love to hear about your career path or your experience at the company. What I have found, too, is always giving your available times first instead of saying, let me know if you're available. I say, I'm available these days and these times. Let me know what works best for you. Nine times out of 10, they usually reach back out and say, I'm available these times set up some time. But when I've done the reverse, when I was first, you know, kind of starting off with trying to figure out the whole networking piece, I was doing like, let me know when you, when you're available and then not hear back. So I feel like giving your availability upfront is more advantageous that way.

Lixandra: Ooh, that's a good tip. I'm going to use that one myself when I reach out to potential guests and set up those initial calls.

Mia: Yeah. The other thing is keeping them to like 15, 20 minutes. And usually they go to like 30 minutes when, when you set it at like 15 minutes, if the conversation is good and flowing, that's what I found to, um, keeping them pretty short, just doing phone calls to like, you don't always have to do like a zoom or video chat. Most people are very like open to just doing a phone call. And those are pretty much like how I would do my like informal coffee chats. And also like when you're connecting right off the bat, I would go on their LinkedIn profile and do like a little bit of snooping and see like, do we have mutual connections? Where did they go to college? And then use that as like a way to tie back to, oh, I didn't know you knew this person or, oh, I also went to this college or, you know, whatever little piece of common knowledge that you can share between the two that kind of makes you feel like a little bit more human and makes the conversation feel more natural.

Lixandra: Okay. So once you switched into product marketing, tell us about those first few months and all those fears you had had about joining a new team and not knowing about blockchain. How did those first few months go after you made the switch?

Mia: The first three, you know, one to three months were You know, a time where I was really trying to understand what everyone did on the team, really understand the product, really understand what are the foundations to product marketing. And I'm very grateful that my, my boss that was on that team understood that it would take some ramp period. And there was a little bit of a learning curve and that was upfront in, in the interview process too. So that's something that I would recommend anyone to ask about. What is your 30, 60, 90 day plan look like for this role? So you can just be very clear because sometimes, especially like in a startup environment, sometimes they don't have an idea around that you have to make it up yourself. In my case, in this role, the first 30 days were to set up one-on-one chats with different people on the team across product engineering, product marketing and sales to really understand who they were, what did they do within the team? And then how could I help collaborate with them now and in the future? So that was really like the first 30 days. My manager also told me, hey, there's this really good community called the Product Marketing Alliance. And I'd recommend anyone that wants to go into product marketing or just know more about it in general to join that community. They have a ton of content and certifications that you can use and leverage it within your career. And so many product marketing leaders also are active in that community. They have conferences and meetups and local chapters that do happy hours. So I'm involved in the LA chapter Anyways, he told me you need to do this product marketing certification, and this will give you the foundations to what you need to know ins and outs of how to put together messaging, how to put together a go-to-market strategy, how to cross collaborate across teams and things like that. So more of like the foundations that you need at the start of your product marketing career, and you get a little certification at the end and you can post about it on LinkedIn, but it's more so like you're learning the actual ins and outs of it. So that was part of like the VMware stipend where you can expense a sort of certification. So I did that in the first three months. And then the last month, it was more so ramping up and understanding the product. So I also did a online certification through Berkeley, Berkeley's online program for a blockchain foundation. where you would learn like what are the ins and outs of blockchain as well. So he also told me, hey, you should do this program. It's really great. You're going to learn all the ins and outs of blockchain and understanding what are the components that go into it. So I got to do those three things in the span of three months, which was a lot for onboarding, but it gave me the strong foundations to start in that career.

Lixandra: Great, so I can see how it paid off for you to stay within VMware to make your career change. I mean, a supportive company like that makes all the difference, right? So Mia, looking back now at all the doubts and fears you had back then, what would you tell yourself?

Mia: Ooh, that's a good question. I would say that you don't have to have everything figured out up front. That it's okay to want to be curious and explore and continue to learn. And that's what really sets you apart from people that are set in their careers, set in their ways of thinking. People really value that, especially people that are hiring managers and leadership that are looking for someone that wants to make a career change or career switch. And I would say, just go for it. You know, it's easy to get that sort of analysis paralysis where you're like, Oh, should I do this? Should I apply? Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there and prepare for as much as you can for those interviews or for learning what you can about the role in the meantime. But now that I've been on the other side, I realized that not everybody has it figured out from the get go. And that has really helped me with putting myself out there more.

Lixandra: Okay, Mia, as we wrap up, what three tips can you offer our listeners who are working on their career switch?

Mia: Definitely check out freelancing. Give it a shot because especially in today's day and age where companies are pulling back on budgets, you know, things are a little bit tighter across companies. They're more willing to hire contractors and then it'll usually convert into a full-time role. if you mutually agree to that. So I'd say that's a great way to get your foot in the door and get to know different teams internally while you're looking for a permanent position or turn into a permanent position at that company. And then the other thing that I would say is when you are working in your companies, make sure that you're networking with as many people as you can that are within that function that you want to work in or within that role, whether they're on your team or not on your team. I've had, you know, situations where I've worked with different people within product marketing, and they've said, hey, we have a project open if you want to work on it, great. Or if you know of anyone that's looking for a new role or hiring. So that's a great way to just stay connected within your network is getting to know as many people as you can. And then I would say for the third one is making sure that you're leaning into your strengths. So when you are making that career switch, take an inventory of what you're good at. You can find the themes across all those different roles that you worked on where you're excelling and within your natural flow. And then you can help tie those strengths back to where you can excel in your next career move and bring your own style to that new role and that new company.

Lixandra: And just as an example, how did you do that?

Mia: So actually, when I was working on the agency side, we did the Clifton StrengthsFinders test. This was like across our whole agency. So everyone got to do the test where you would identify, I think it's like across like 30 or 40 different strengths. And my strengths were futuristic, discipline, focus, and I'm forgetting the fourth one, but that was like a really cool exercise to be like, Oh, wow. This is like speaking to me very much. I also worked with a career coach about a year ago. Her name is Alicia. She is awesome. And she helped do a lot of exercises with me to help get really clear on mapping out what my overall goals were, what my vision looked like. and then creating like a path to get to that point. So that really helped give me like the clarity and direction. So I wouldn't feel so overwhelmed by all the options.

Lixandra: Wow, Mia, thanks so much for everything you've shared today. You definitely gave us a lot of ideas. Any final words?

Mia: I would say if you're in the position of making a career switch, just go for it. And also lean on your mentors, lean on your network, past colleagues, anyone that you can think of that you've interacted with in the past. Like, don't be afraid to talk with them about what you want to do next. And you never know what that could lead to.

Lixandra: Thanks to Mia Villarreal for being our guest today. You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. 

So what's your career switch? Are you motivated to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know along with any feedback you have about the show. Let us know too if you'd like to be a guest. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at careerswitchpod. And please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.