48: Tuning into your younger self (Women's History Month)

Barbara Brandon-Croft is recognized as the first Black woman cartoonist in the U.S. to break into the mainstream press with Where I’m Coming From, her cartoon feature centering on Black female voices.

As we celebrate Women's History Month, Barbara looks back at her various careers—from her early days as a fashion and beauty writer to her time as a cartoonist at the Detroit Free Press in the 90s, and later, as the research director at Parents magazine, where she worked for 18 years. 

In this episode, Barbara recalls how she navigated unexpected career shifts, including getting laid off from Parents—in her 60s. She shares how tuning into her younger self helped her embrace the unknown and revive her cartooning career post layoff. 

"I needed to start thinking about receiving what I couldn't imagine," she says about the many doors her shift in perspective has opened.

Barbara’s story also demonstrates the role timing can play when it comes to a career change. When she had to move on from being a cartoonist in her younger years, it turns out it's just the right career for her now. 

Episode Highlights:

• Barbara's journey as the first Black woman cartoonist syndicated in the mainstream press in the U.S.

 • Facing unexpected career changes

 • Finding guidance in your younger self

 • The financial realities of creative careers and how to navigate them

 • How unpaid opportunites can lead to paid opportunities

 • Getting out of your comfort zone

 • Barbara's reviving her cartoonist career today

 • The role of trust and openness in career reinvention

Find Barbara Brandon-Croft at:

Website: https://barbarabrandoncroft.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barbarabrandoncroft/

Museum of Modern Art (MoMA): https://www.moma.org/magazine/authors/626

Barbara’s Book: Where I’m Coming From

Music credit: TimMoor from Pixabay

Podcast info:
What's your career switch? What do you think about this episode and the show? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lixandra: Hi, everyone. I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you're considering or working on. Maybe you're trying to switch industries or professions or break out on your own and start a business. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on challenges that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. So, I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of advice that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome, I'm glad you're here. 

Welcome to season four of Career Switch Podcast. It's been a while, but we're back with new episodes to get you started with your career change or motivate you while you work on switching industries or professions. My guest today certainly knows a lot about that. 

I'm happy to kick off this season during Women's History Month with my guest, Barbara Brandon-Croft. Barbara is recognized as the first Black woman cartoonist to cross the color line into the mainstream press here in the U.S. in 1989 with her cartoon feature called, Where I'm Coming From, which centers on Black female voices. 

In this episode, Barbara looks back at her various careers, including working as a cartoonist for the Detroit Free Press in the 90s, and how she eventually ended up as the research director at Parents Magazine. She talks about the guidance she found in her younger self to switch her perspective after she got laid off from Parents in her 60s, and how that mental shift has opened up her world. 

Barbara's story also goes to show how timing can play such a vital role when it comes to a career change. When she had to move on from being a cartoonist in her younger years, turns out it's just the right career for her now in her later years. 

Hi, Barbara. Thanks for joining us today. I'm so happy to catch up with you. Just so our audience knows, we've known each other for many years. I actually worked for you when I was freelancing for Parents Magazine. So let's start there. You started at Parents Magazine as a freelance fact checker. What was your title when you got hired full time and what did you do there?

Barbara: When I got hired full time, I was called a research editor. So now I was in charge of all of the pages in Parents Magazine. So we'd get manuscripts, we'd have to go through the manuscripts, we'd have to make sure everything was accurate. That was my job. I stayed there and I kept getting promoted. I was research editor and then it was like, you want to be the research director? And I said, sure. So, you know, a little bit more money, no more responsibility, it was still the same responsibility, but you felt appreciated. I felt appreciated. So I kept doing it for as long as I could. And how long were you there? I was with Parents Magazine for 18 plus years.

Lixandra: I remember when I got hired at Family Circle Magazine at the same parent company, layoffs happened 3 months after I started and then it happened again a few months later and it kept happening every few months. I made it until 2018 when my time finally came and I got laid off.

Barbara: I mean, we saw a lot of people getting laid off a lot of times. I survived many rounds of layoffs at parents and you're devastated every time, you know, that day when layoffs come and the whole energy in the building changes.

Lixandra: Yeah. So eventually you also got laid off and for you, it was during the pandemic. How did you take that?

Barbara: I had been there so long that I had a pretty decent severance pay. Luckily for me, I had other things. I had other irons in the fire. So that's how I took it. I was like, I'm going to get paid for not working for a time. I'm going to have insurance for a time. So let's just roll with this. So that's how it happened for me.

Lixandra: Yeah, yeah. So let's get into what was brewing for you at the time, because that eventually led to where you are now. Tell us what else you had going on.

Barbara: I think it was just before the pandemic hit. I got a call from a publishing company called Drawn and Quarterly, and they basically put out cartoon art books. well-made books. And I got a call from the head there, and her name was Peggy. And she's like, you know what, I would like to do a book of your work. So here's my cartooning comes in. So I was a cartoonist. I had become the first black woman to be nationally syndicated into the mainstream press back in the 90s. And I had 14 years of doing a weekly strip. And I had a lot of fanfare that followed that. Being the first always gives you a lot of attention. She said, I think we could do a book of your work, and I would like to. And I was like, I would like you to. So that was an iron in the fire. I didn't know how it was going to come to be. I didn't know how many things had to be worked out before this book come out, but it did ultimately come out in 2023. So it was a long process, which is something else I learned about book publishing, is that everything takes a long time, very long time, and if you just have patience, It works out.

Lixandra: It worked out. Wow. So since this episode is for Women's History Month, tell us about what you were doing in the 90s as a female cartoonist.

Barbara: Yeah.

Lixandra: And how did you get into it?

Barbara: It turns out that I've always been in publishing. My dad pioneered black cartoonists, Brunswick Brandon Jr. He had a comic strip called Luther that was syndicated. He was one of the first black cartoonists drawing black characters in the 60s and 70s and 80s. And I also helped him. know, little things that he needed done I could do because I had a certain flair for art and I was able to help him. I didn't know I was being trained, but I went to school for art. I went to Syracuse for art. I came back and I was looking for a job. I also liked fashion. I went to retail news bureau. They said they'd accept trainees. I took a portfolio. I got the gig. So that's how that happened. So I was trying to get a job that paid more money. There was a black woman's magazine called Elan that I went and met the editor-in-chief there. And I said, I'd do anything for you. I'm writing fashion now, but I could do this. I draw. And she's like, well, you're kind of funny. Can you do a comic strip for us? I said, sure. Because I'd seen my dad do it all my life. When you have a live-in role model, I was kind of smug about it. I said, of course I can. I had no ideas. But I finally came up with an idea. Characters, all black women, talking to the reader. And they said they liked it. I came up with more. The magazine folded. So I was never published in Elon. But I thought maybe I could send it to Essence magazine, which was their rival. I took it to Essence and I got a favorable response, but they're like, ah, we don't think we want to put a cartoon in the magazine. What are you doing since you're not making it as a cartoonist? I'm writing fashion. They needed a fashion and beauty writer. I was like, I know nothing about beauty. I've been writing fashion for a couple of years. And they're like, we'll teach you. I got that gig. I worked at Essence as a fashion and beauty writer for almost six years. It was near the end of my stay there that my dad got an award for being one of the pioneer black cartoonists. He got a letter from Detroit Free Press. They asked him if he knew of any black cartoonists. They wanted their paper to reflect their readership. And he's like, are you going to do it, Barbara? I was like, yes. I sent my strips to Detroit. They liked it. They wanted it on a weekly basis. That's how I started. Then I got a syndicate. For those who don't know, a syndicate is like a company that works like an agent. They have you in their corral or whatever, and they're trying to get newspapers to buy your stuff. Newspapers buy it from them. They pay me. That's how it worked. And I was there for 14 years. me being the first in the mainstream press, you know. So I say I crossed the color line because there were Black women cartoonists. Jackie Orms did it for Black newspapers, but it was never in the white press. So that made me the first. And that's why this big publishing company, many years later, is like, I think you have an important story. We want to make a book. I was like, I've always wanted to do a book. So that's how that came to be. And the book came out and it got an award. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's kind of cool. Wonderful. So tell us about the book. The book is Where I'm Coming From. It's an origin book. It, you know, tells how I got the gig. It has 14 years of my work. It has things that I've done post syndicate. There's also an essay in there by a professor who puts it in kind of historical context where the, where the comic strip fit in.

Lixandra: So let's go back to 2023 when the book came out and you said it took a year for it to come out?

Barbara: It took more than a year to be published. I was in talks when I was still working at Parents. I was just being hopeful when it was laid off. I was like, well, I have a book coming out, not knowing that, you know, books, you know, it's not like I can live off of what I make from a book, but it was, it kept my spirits up and I knew that I had things brewing. So what happened after the book came out? I got all kinds of publicity from it. People reached out to me in these years that I'm not at a job and just being my cartoonist self. I still do cartoons. I put them up on Instagram. I don't get paid, but it has led to other things. I got an email from the state department asking me if I would be interested in going to Nigeria to do a workshop with editorial cartoonists in Lagos. I was like, uh, yeah. So last year, I went to Nigeria. I had a wonderful time. Last week, I did a workshop with cartoonists in Bahrain. Only because they knew I was a cartoonist, they found my website and said, oh, this person, maybe we need to work with her. So things have been happening like that.

Lixandra: Yeah, I also saw on your social media that you're also doing workshops. What else have you been doing?

Barbara: Yeah, aside from Nigeria and Bahrain, which was very exciting to be invited in this global sense. I also get an email from some folks in Texas that have a cartooning group. They said they were going to read my book for their book club. And they said they've never done comic strips. They've only done comic books. And I am a person who is a cartoonist, but I'm not a comic book person. So I did not, I was not aware of this particular group and I was honored. And so like next week we're going to do, I'm going to be a part of a, I'll be a present in the book club to talk about my book. Be interesting to hear people's reactions. I wanted to make sure my dad's legacy was kept alive as well. And I met a woman years ago, more than 10 years ago now, Tara Nakashima Donahue, whose parents had a gallery in Manhattan. And she's like, I think we can do an exhibit of your work and your dad's work. And I was like, wow, that would be so cool. She was the one who kept saying to me, you need to keep doing this. You need to go back to it. I don't know, I think it's in my rear view mirror, what being a cartoonist. But she was the one who kept pushing me to do more stuff. And so… We did an exhibit, which is around, I mean, it's called Still Racism in America, and it highlights how my dad's work, 30 years before my work, we talked about similar issues, social issues, and how interesting it is that what he did in 1960-whatever is something I talked about in 1990-whatever, And that exhibit has been at the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library and Museum, which is part of Ohio State University. And last year it was at UC Davis in California. And I'm hoping it goes other places that I can't talk about yet because we're in talks, you know, about bringing the exhibit around. Who knew?

Lixandra: That's so exciting. You have so much going on, Barbara. So for our listeners who are working on their career change, when did you start thinking that you could be a full-time cartoonist after your layoff from parents? Did you have any doubts?

Barbara: I felt like I could do it. I feel grateful to have friends that were encouraging me to do it, that they remembered my strip from back when, and I was encouraged to do it. My dad passed in 2014, so he always encouraged me to go back to it. So I felt like I could. I was worried about not getting paid. This is kind of interesting. When I left Essence, I was not let go from Essence. Like I wasn't laid off from Essence. I left Essence because I got one newspaper and I was like, okay, I'm going to be a cartoonist now. And my mom was mortified. Like you can't leave Essence. What about health insurance? What about this? So I was like, it's going to be okay. I just kind of had that way of thinking that it would be okay. I had this one newspaper. That's what prompted me to try to get a syndicate. Once I got a syndicate, and now I have three papers, and you really can't live off of three papers, but I just kept feeling that this was the thing for me to do. With the syndicate, the more papers you have, the more money you make. when papers start dropping, the less money you make. So there was a pocket of time where I was certainly fine. You know, I was, I could, I could live without hustling, trying to get freelance gigs. But it was then that I, when the paper started to drop, I got married, I got pregnant. I was, I was working at fashion shows. I was working at sample sales. I was doing, I would do anything just to keep money coming. At some point, you know, when I started this fact-checking thing, I was like, huh, this isn't bad. I like it. You know, and once I got at Parents and I had, you know, maybe 10, 12 newspapers by then, I was still doing the comic strip, but I was working at Parents. And then when I got the full-time gig there and the syndicate said, OK, we're going to stop doing it, they asked me if I would come up with something else. And I tried. I came up with something that not enough editors liked it. So I just put my full force into Parents magazine. So there have been times where I've had jobs that I've left to be a cartoonist and it wasn't quite enough. You know, this last time I didn't leave. I was, you know, it was like it laid off and nobody's coming back. And it freed up my time. Who knew that I, you know, if I, if I were still working at parents, I would not have had the time to leave and go to Nigeria. I've been invited places. I was at the San Diego Comic-Con this time last year, and I was one of the special guests. I got an award. I got an Ink Pot award. I was on like six panels. It really opened up my world, this going back to the cartooning. Still doesn't pay, but it did open up my world.

Lixandra: Let's talk about that, Barbara. For our listeners who maybe want to revive a previous career like you did and do it out of the love they have for it, the financial part is a big part. Yes, yes.

Barbara: I have to say that when the magazine ended and There I was, it was very, very scary because now I am in my 60s, you know? So it's like, who's going to hire me to do anything now? And, you know, as I know, publishing, newspapers, magazines, they're shrinking. And fact checkers, when we once had a, you know, we're held in high esteem. We are held in not so high esteem anymore. It's not, it's not a mandatory thing. I can't go back to fashion. I don't know fashion anymore. I don't, I'm not up to date on any of that. All the internet stuff is moving so fast for me. I don't get it. I'm of an age where I, I resist it. Unfortunately, I'm like, I don't get it. So I am not of help to anybody. And it worried me. I was very concerned. One thing I did was to try to stop ruminating in how bad things were, you know, stop going over how this is an awful place to be. I was like, you need to recalibrate. And I needed to start thinking about receiving what I can't imagine. I don't know what could happen. I don't know what the possibilities are, but let me open up my head to accepting it. And that has been very helpful to me. And things out of nowhere have come to me and I've been open to them and and ready to do whatever it is. And something about changing your way of looking at it, I think gets to be very helpful.

Lixandra: I love that. Let's dive into that. How did you change your mindset? How did you work it out?

Barbara: I just tried to, I just, you start looking inward and you start trying to figure out how you can get back to the person that you were. People often ask you, what would you say to your younger self? And, you know, I hear that often. And I was like, I would like my younger self to speak to me because my younger self was fearless. I thought that I could do anything. Somebody says, can you do a comic strip? And I was like, yeah, I can do it. Somebody asked, can you write fashion and beauty? I was like, don't know beauty, but I can learn. Can you do this? Yes. I just kept saying, yes, I can do that. And that person, that young me, the me who was in her twenties and thirties, didn't think there was anything she couldn't do if she put her mind to it. So I would like that young person to talk to me. And I realized that when this money runs out from the severance pay, like I said, I had a lot of weeks, but when that stops, what are you going to do about regular income? Part of what was good about turning 65 is that you were able to receive Social Security. That's a help. But I also started thinking about myself and my way of thinking. And I didn't want to go into this whole of, oh, this is bad. This is doomsday. There's nothing left. Yeah, you can do comic strips if you want to, but nobody's going to pay you for them. or you have to do whatever you have to do to make it work. I was like, stop it, Barbara. It was like trying to imagine an Etch-a-Sketch and you just shake. It's like, you know, let me get that out of my head. Stop putting that in your head and start thinking about the possibilities and start, like I said, start thinking about what you can't imagine. I have no idea what could happen. I'm just not going to worry. I'm just going to keep going ahead and I'm going to see what happens." And for me, things started happening. I didn't know I was going to get called from, again, you know, State Department. Who knew that? You know, that paid. I didn't know I was going to get called to go to a comic convention in Boston. I went. I sold books. I got paid. Last week, I did a presentation at the community college in Westchester and that paid and they were like, that was great. We loved it. You should take this on the road. I was like, huh, you know, maybe I can take this on the road. I'm feeling more and more comfortable talking in front of people. I was very anxious and scared. I walked out of my comfort zone. Just do it. You just have to start doing it and seeing what you can do to monetize your existence, your cartooning. actually don't mind doing things that don't pay because it's more exposure, you know, and it could attract other people and other things. So, yeah.

Lixandra: I think there's also an element of you've switched to a creative career where financially, right, it's not the same as having a nine-to-five job. With creative careers, you usually have to hustle to get paid. But, okay, I want to talk a little bit about your actual comic strip so everyone knows the content. And are you using your younger self to create your new work?

Barbara: Like I said, I created it for a black woman's magazine. So in my mind, I thought it would be interesting to have black women characters speaking directly. So my comic strip is basically faces, and they're talking directly to the reader. And I felt that that would create a kind of intimacy that would resonate with people. And Jules Feiffer is a cartoonist who just passed away. He had a comic strip called Feiffer and the Village Voice. I loved his work. And often he would have his character talk directly to the reader. And I thought that was brilliant. So I kind of stole that idea and used it with my black women characters. What I do find interesting is that I created it for a black women's magazine. I got picked up by Detroit Free Press and then distributed nationally and internationally through a syndicate. I kept it the same. I kept it black women talking straight, straight talk about whatever was on their mind. When I first started it out, I think I talked about relationships more than anything. Girlfriend relationships, I talked about. Girl-guy relationships. I started having the characters speak to one another, so they develop these personalities. And they were all friends, but they're very distinct women. There hadn't been a strip at the time about women who were also best friends. And when I had them talking to each other, I felt like the reader would have an opportunity to kind of eavesdrop on what these Black women were talking about. And I didn't change it. I didn't change it, you know, to fit the audience. I just thought it was like, it's just like me. And I think that's why it gained its certain level of success, is because that's what it was. It was black women talking about what was on their minds. I did meet a young white guy who worked at the Library of Congress. I was part of an exhibit there. It was all women cartoonists and illustrators. And he came up to talk to me after and he said, you know what, I grew up in somewhere in the South. And he said, I didn't have any black friends. I didn't know any black women. He's like, so I enjoyed reading your strip because it made me feel like they were my friends. That is a high compliment. You know, I was like, thank you. I appreciate that. I just love the fact that it's not just for black women. It's just what is on our minds. I trust that. Maybe I use the spirit of my younger self when I do it now, but it's definitely coming from the older me now because my work now is more politically centered. I don't have an editor, so I feel like I can be as harsh as I want to be and talk as straight as I want to talk and just let people know what's on these black women's minds, mine in particular.

Lixandra: Yeah, definitely. I follow you on Instagram and your cartoons are direct and tell it like it is. And with everything that's going on these days, it's nice to hear you're not tiptoeing around subject matters. And we definitely need more of that.

Barbara: I appreciate that because A couple of people have told me from looking at what I'm doing now is that they feel so frustrated about what's going on in the world that when they see my strip, I was able to put words to what they were feeling. And that makes me feel good. I mean, it makes me feel good to get it out of me because I get so worked up and I do a strip and I put it out there. And if somebody says, thank you, even if it's, you know, um, just holding up a mirror to what is happening. It's helping people articulate their feelings, and that's a great thing to be able to do.

Lixandra: Sir Barbara, it's been so great to hear about all the things you have going on in your new career. How can listeners keep up with what you're doing?

Barbara: You can certainly keep up with what I'm doing on Instagram, at Barbara Brandon Croft. And also you can check out my website, BarbaraBrandonCroft.com. And if you go through it, you'll see all kinds of things about my career, new work, events, and some past podcasts and past things I've done. Oh, you know what else? There's something else that's coming up. There is MoMA, Museum of Modern Art, asked me if I would come up with a cartoon for their digital platform. I said, sure. So I had to step out of my comfort zone again. They didn't want to just run my strip. They wanted me to do something new for them, which I did. So that's online. But it's also going to be in book form. They chose 25 cartoonists that they've used throughout the year to make actual book. So I'm one of the 25 cartoonists. And that comes out in April. So that's something else that's coming up.

Lixandra: Yeah, yeah, we'll have to keep an eye out for that. I'll look into it and add it to the show notes when it comes out. So as we wrap up, what advice do you have for listeners who are working on their career switch, whether it be their first, second, or even third?

Barbara: Well, if it's a career change and you have control over it, it's something that you want to change and you want to do, I just want to encourage people to do that. When it's a career change that is brought upon you, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go for it again. You just have to go for it. I was saying to the college students yesterday that my thing My mantra, what I like to tell people, is to do you. Be true to you. Try to figure out what it is that you feel very strongly about. We all are unique. Depend on that. Don't doubt it, and do you. And find something that you really enjoy. And even if you're not good at it, people would question, oh, she's a cartoonist. I don't like those drawings. It's OK. You don't have to please everybody. This is a huge world. This is a huge country. So what? Somebody doesn't like your work. So what? Somebody doesn't like this. There are enough people that will. And don't get all damped down by the situation. Try to find a way to pick yourself up.

Lixandra: One last thing, would you also say, like with your career change, the timing was also helpful? Like you were saying earlier, how unpaid opportunities led to paid opportunities. I agree.

Barbara: I absolutely agree. That's what I do. I'm knee deep in unpaid opportunities. I'm doing things and I'm not getting paid, but I love what I'm doing and I trust that it will open me up to more opportunities that perhaps will pay.

Lixandra: I like that about trusting, how trusting is part of being open. Right.

Barbara: I think so too. I think it's hard in this world. I mean, you can, you take all the things that are happening and it, and the more it weighs you down, the more it closes you up and the smaller you get and the more depressed you can be and all that. So it's, you know, like take a stretch, stretch it out and be open to all kinds of opportunities. I think they're out there. You can trust because you know you are unique. You are yourself. Nobody can sit back and be Alexandra. Nobody can sit back and be Barbara. You know, we are our own selves, and we were made that way, and we can be that way.

Lixandra: Thanks to Barbara Brandon-Croft for being our guest today. You can keep up with Barbara on her website, barbarabrandoncroft.com, and on Instagram, also at barbarabrandoncroft. You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. 

So what's your career switch? Are you motivated to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know, along with any feedback you have about the show. Let us know too, if you'd like to be a guest. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at careerswitchpod. And please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.