35: Leaving media: Career change for editors

If you're an editor who's been affected by the layoffs in journalism and media, this episode is for you! I chat with editorial recruiter Chandra Turner, founder of The Talent Fairy, a recruiting agency that specializes in placing editorial talent.  

Chandra was a top editor at consumer magazines, such as CosmoGirl and Parents, before she was laid off in 2017. Today, she works with large corporations, startups and nonprofits across a variety of industries to connect them with editors and content creators. She’s also a career coach, who helps editorial professionals transition out of traditional media.    

In this episode of Career Switch Podcast,  Chandra and I talk about how media is changing and how editors can switch to other industries that need their editorial skills. We also cover the biggest challenges many editors face when leaving media and how to handle them.

Episode Highlights:
• How media is changing
• Why editors make the best hires
• Industries looking to hire editors
• Resources for journalists and editors who are leaving media
• Believing you can transition out of media
• New terminology for content creation: content marketing, brand publishing, branded  and sponsored content, affiliate marketing
• Surprising results of Chandra’s annual survey of editors 


Find Chandra Turner at:

Website: www.TheTalentFairy.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/chandra-turner

Instagram: www.instagram.com/thetalentfairy
Career Boot Camp for Editors: next session starts 9/11/23!


Resources: 

Where Editors Go Next—An Ongoing List of Pivot-able Industries by Chandra Turner

2024 Editorial Hiring Report by TheTalentFairy

LinkedIn Groups:

LinkedIn for Journalists 

Publishing and Editing Professionals 

Magazine Editors Network  

Magazine  

Additional Episodes:

Episode 31: Leaving journalism: When you need to change industries

Additional Podcasts:

Beyond the Newsroom

Music credit: TimMoor from Pixabay

Podcast info:
What's your career switch? What do you think about this episode and the show? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lixandra: Hi, everyone. I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you're considering or working on. Maybe you're trying to switch industries or professions or break out on your own and start a business. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on challenges that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. 

So, I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of advice that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

With all the layoffs going on in journalism and media lately, I wanted to make an episode of Career Switch Podcast specifically for editors. This topic hits close to home for me because I was a research editor and worked in women's magazines for many years until 2018 when I was laid off. Layoffs were the norm at the publisher where I worked, and unfortunately, layoffs are still happening on a regular basis in journalism and media. CNN, Spotify, NPR, Gannett, ABC News, The L.A. Times, Vox Media, and Dotdash Meredith are just some of the media companies that have laid off part of their staffs this year so far. 

For this episode, I turn to someone who knows both sides of the story. Chandra Turner was a top editor at consumer magazines such as Cosmogirl and Parents before she left the industry herself in 2017. Today, she is the founder of the Talent Fairy, a recruiting agency that specializes in placing editorial talent. Chandra works with large corporations, startups, and nonprofits across a variety of industries, including telemedicine, venture capital, real estate, and e-commerce. And she connects these companies with editors and content creators. She's also a career coach who helps editorial professionals transition out of traditional media. 

In this episode, Chandra and I talk about how media is changing and how editors can make a career switch to other industries that need their editorial skills. We also cover the biggest challenges many editors face when changing fields. 

Hi, Chandra, thanks for joining us today. Let's dive in. With all the recent layoffs in journalism and media, many editors and content creators are looking to transition out of media. How is the industry changing?

Chandra: It's changed immensely in the last 20, 25 years, and even more so in the last 10. So we don't really have an industry anymore for people like me and you. Now suddenly, All of corporate America, all of nonprofits, every work organization now needs people who create content, edit content, produce content, move content through its process. Now the industry has blown up. So in a way that's really wonderful because there are more opportunities, but it also makes it a little unnerving and scary because it's not what we're used to. We're used to working in, at least you and I were in a media industry that was very insular and tight knit. And we understood what our jobs were and we understood what the job was above that job. And we all hired within this kind of bubble, so to speak, and that is changing. Now corporations are creating media just like media companies create media. So that is the biggest change.

Lixandra: What are some examples of corporations that are becoming these new media companies?

Chandra: Brand publishing is where there's a lot of growth and brand publishing is essentially when a brand acts like a media company. A great example of this is Bloomberg. So if you think back, like they were really the original brand publishers with what we're calling brand publishers. It was the software that was on the floor, right? And what traders used in the financial world. Well, then Bloomberg started a magazine and it was a very, and is a journalistic magazine. And he became a publisher at a very respected one. So if you think of it that way, now we have Restoration Hardware, for instance, creating a magazine and media product. We have Red Bull that has a media company attached to it. Chase, which just bought the infatuation, which is kind of like a timeout New York or timeout period timeout, you know, all across the country. General Mills, for instance, that's another one. creating food content, just like a magazine brand, a media brand would have done many years ago. So it's this total shift of what does it mean to be a media company? What is a media company? And there's all these possibilities that we just didn't know about before.

Lixandra: And for the layoffs, who's been most affected?

Chandra: Yeah, so most of the layoffs we're seeing are in media and in tech. And where tech intersects with media. So, you know, a lot of the startup places that, you know, brought on editorial like people, but they were like, well, if you're not bringing in the money, then we're going to cut your position. So a lot, a lot of that, uh, changed in the last six months. I'm sure that you're aware. And a lot of people are aware, um, media is always kind of gone in this like up and down cycle. When we contract, you know, when corporations decide to cut, they tend to cut. their public relations, their communications, their advertising, and then ad supported media doesn't get the advertising dollars. So then they end up having to cut as well. So that's exactly what's happening right now. On top of that, we have this whole shift that I was just talking about where brands have decided they're going to create their own content. rather than advertising or trying to pitch their content to media brands. So it's kind of like, well, why do we need the traditional media companies anymore as they're thinking we'll just create it ourselves. So that's created a crunch for ad-supported media. And ad-supported media, I just mean like magazines with advertising in it. Digital journalism, think about BuzzFeed News. They just closed their news division. And it's not that the content wasn't Fantastic. It's just that they don't have the advertising to support it right now.

Lixandra: Right. And obviously like news organizations like CNN and Gannett and even podcasting has been affected.

Chandra: Even podcasting. Yes, absolutely. We're all feeling the crunch across all kinds of media. I would like to say that those people that are laid off in media have a lot of opportunity to move on to roles that are outside of ad supported media. I think that there's hope for us editor types.

Lixandra: Yeah, let's talk about that. In fact, you have a series on social media called Why Editors Make the Best Hires. I saw that you even have it as a hashtag. Yes. So what are some reasons that editors make the best hires?

Chandra: Editors, I believe, and of course I'm biased because I'm a former editor. I worked for 25 years as an editor, mostly in women's magazines, you know, Parents. I worked at Condé Nast, which has Glamour. I worked at Hearst, which has Cosmo and Cosmo Girl. So I feel like we really understand audience. And I talked to other people who hire editors and they find the same is true. So editors were trained and that kind of had this almost instinctual gut of knowing what a reader wants on a very true and authentic level, rather than selling something to somebody. They don't think about the end result of them buying the product. They think of the end result of connection. And so that is really the secret sauce of what makes an editor a great hire for your company who is trying to connect on an authentic way to your consumer. And there are a million ways to say that. And I have made a series for the last three years where I have a new quote every month or two. And amazingly, they're all very intuitive and interesting, even though that's essentially the core premise is that editors know not only how to communicate, but also how to package and create content that reaches that person in a very authentic, interesting and original way.

Lixandra: And how do you combine your editorial background with what you do now as the founder of the Talent Fairy?

Chandra: The Talent Fairy is a recruiting agency, first and foremost. I started it four years ago. I'm like, my goodness, that went by fast. Because, and I should say that throughout my career, I really loved connecting people. I just got a thrill of being a matchmaker, you know, like for dating. It's like you know somebody who could be really great and you know somebody else who's looking for somebody that has their same skill set and you match them together. So I've been doing that throughout my career just for fun. and always said, well, if I'm ever going to go out on my own, I'm going to start a recruiting agency. So that's very much what I did. So I now work with companies and they can be media companies, but more often they are non-media companies who are looking for people like you, like me, like the thousands of people that are in my database and that I'm connected to. They're looking for them and I help them find them. So they come to me, they hire me and they're like, I want to head a content for my new luxury bedding company, and I find that person and place them for them. So that I find really fun. I love to reconnect with people. And then on top of that, when I have time, I also do some career coaching. So I work with those same people. who want to move into those roles but maybe are intimidated by it or afraid of corporate culture or whatever the case may be. I help them understand what their skills are, how they can transfer those skills outside of traditional media, and really just to gain the confidence that they can do it and they can be working in an adjacent industry.

Lixandra: So yeah, you see it from both ends. Tell us about some non-media companies that you work with and the editors they've hired.

Chandra: I do work on both sides and each side of my business helps the other. So when I'm recruiting, it helps to know what the candidate is looking for and what their pain points are. And when I'm working with the candidates to help them transition, I'm also learning about what the companies want, right? Because they're my client. So it does help on both ends. I've been very lucky that I've had a variety of companies that have come to me and I never know who I'm going to get next. So I've worked with a real estate company, a VC venture capital firm, a luxury bedding company, a fashion e-commerce site, a health telemedicine company, a health nonprofit agency, a relationships app. I mean, it just, it runs the gamut. There are so many different subject matter expertise and passions that they need, right? Because the relationship app wants to have somebody that understands what it's like to be dating today and using dating apps. And luxury bedding company needs to have somebody who really understands red count and how things are tailored and created and what the trends are this year and interior designer connections and all of that. So I reach out to people who I know in my network and that could be, you know, people that I've worked with or people that I've worked with who recommend them or just people that I'm connected to. So for that luxury bedding company, I reached out to a woman who had previously worked at Martha Stewart, no surprise. Right. And then she had gone on to work at some other, you know, home interiors, brands and companies. And when I was hiring for the VC firm, I reached out to a woman who was also a founder herself. She started a newsletter for teenagers. She worked at Teen Vogue. She worked at The Cut. So, you know, there's always the right person there.

Lixandra: Now, when these non-media companies come to you, are they looking for editors or do they come to you not knowing what they want?

Chandra: Most of them come to me because they know that I'm an expert finding editorial people. So they have already kind of gone over the threshold of editorial and they want editorial-like content. So that's why they're coming to me because they know that I'm a specialist in that. Occasionally, it'll be that they know they want content and they want good content, but they don't know exactly what it is or what they want. And in those cases, I have to really explain to them what an editor does that is going to be creating, you know, brand publishing or content marketing versus promotional ad copy and why the people that I will more likely bring to them are going to want to be authentic in their storytelling. And they're not used to being, you know, advertising and marketing background. But for the most part, they come to me because they really want editors. And they want the secret sauce that editors have and that journalistic sensibility. And journalistic judgment, too, like the ability to know what makes a good story, what is appropriate, all the things that you learn as a journalist.

Lixandra: So companies are realizing, right, that they need editors versus people with marketing backgrounds, advertising backgrounds, public relations backgrounds.

Chandra: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting because they still need all those other people. There's no question. I mean, they still need marketers. They still need advertisers. Editors are an addition in the sense that we look at things differently and we're creating content differently. And they recognize that they're going to create content that is not just to sell, but is to educate or entertain or influence. in a way that is beyond just selling the product, that they need to go to somebody who's an expert in that. Luckily, here we are.

Lixandra: Yeah. A lot of us are available. That's right. Let's talk about the differences since you've mentioned content marketing, brand publishing. And when we first spoke, you also told me about branded and sponsored content and affiliate marketing.

Chandra: Yeah. They do tend to be used interchangeably sometimes. And I recognize they all kind of have the same words in them. And it's a shame that they aren't easier to define. You know, I'd love to be able to redefine them myself. So no shame if you don't know all the differences between these things. Content marketing is essentially creating content that is The end result of creating brand affinity, right? So in some way, so it is having the rub off effect. Sometimes that is much more promotional drives back to a product. Sometimes it's just in and of itself. It's creating a nice. Brand experience in the sense that it, you would recognize that Peloton for instance, is doing stories about how to stretch or the importance of warmups or whatever, but it's feels very much like maybe a women's health used to do or a self-magazine used to do. So they're doing that kind of content that enriches their consumer that is maybe going to drive back to their site or be on their site next to one of their workouts or one of their products. So that's kind of traditional content marketing in a very, very simplified way. Brand publishing is like I was using the Bloomberg example or the Red Bull example where they're creating an independent product that is an editorial product. It is completely separate. It's a product in and of itself. So they are acting like a publishing company. Branded and sponsored content to just push them together for simplicity sake is when a media company or a media outlet is creating content in partnership with a brand. So they could be working with a Peloton or with Kraft Foods or whatever to create content that is then going to be distributed on the media platforms. So for instance, Hearst Made, which is a agency within Hearst Magazines, works with brands, let's say L'Oreal, on a story about female founders. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with mascara, but they have their mascara product is sponsoring that content. So that is branded or sponsored content. Affiliate is when product guides and shopping content is living on a media or even a non-media brand. And The creator of the content is getting a cut of every single product or service that they are recommending through those links. Wirecutter is a great example. So you could go onto Wirecutter and you can see all the best products for Father's Day and click right through those to a grill. And the New York Times will get a cut of the revenue from the sale of that grill. So that has been a huge revenue driver for media companies because they're getting essentially advertising money as affiliate money from partners outside of traditional advertising. So you'll see that a lot of the jobs that are listed are for shopping editors, for product review editors, for writers who understand particular, you know, gear and product markets.

Lixandra: Okay. Well, thanks for those explanations because a lot of us may be used to the term custom publishing.

Chandra: Yeah. Custom publishing is essentially like branded content. So custom publishing is like back in the day and not to say this can't still be the case. Marriott wants to create a magazine. And so they will hire a media company to create that magazine on their behalf and it will have Marriott on the cover. That still exists today. and it is branded content, but it is exactly the same thing.

Lixandra: Okay, so just new terms that we have to learn. New terms, unfortunately, yes. All right, great, Chandra. Tell us about your recent survey of editors and what you found.

Chandra: Back in December, I surveyed 300 people, 280 something people, All of them editors, all of them people that worked within our industry, quote unquote. And I always ask and I have for the last 4 years in this survey. Have you pivoted careers this year. In previous years, it wasn't really significant finding this year. A 3rd of the people who took the survey had actually pivoted. That was mind boggling to me, that a third of them within the year. So that's a lot of people who have moved from traditional media into these other areas. And I asked them what areas they moved into, content marketing, brand publishing, affiliate marketing, comms, and publicity. So it is definitely happening. There are other people who are doing it and doing it successfully. One other thing I just want to add is that when they do move, I asked, you know, are you happy with your move? And 91% were happy in their new role. That's pretty.

Lixandra: That's really good and encouraging. Yes, yes. Yeah, that there's life outside of media because a lot of us were in media for so long. I myself was in women's magazines for 20 plus years, as were you. Yeah. And then you have to make that shift, especially after a layoff. First, you have that shock of the layoff. Then you have to figure out now what am I going to do?

Chandra: Right. And I also get a lot of people who come to me because they feel guilty that they're still in media and they feel like they have to shift. Something hasn't happened yet, but they're afraid it's going to happen. So I see that just as much as I see people who are laid off and they're actively looking because, you know, it's a volatile industry.

Lixandra: Yeah. No, I remember at Meredith. I mean, we knew layoffs were coming, you know, like every season basically.

Chandra: Every quarter. Yeah, every quarter we would start to get nervous.

Lixandra: Yes. Yeah. So for your coaching clients, what are some of the biggest challenges they face when they realize that they do need to leave media?

Chandra: The number one thing is that you have to realize you can do it and the confidence and understanding that you really do have a full skill set, especially if you're moving into an adjacent industry, like one of the ones that I've talked about. That's the hardest thing to get past is that yes, you can walk in and do this on day one. You have the skills. Just understanding that and owning that is the biggest challenge that I see with all of my coaching clients and even with my recruiting clients when I'm tapping them to move from traditional media into a corporation environment. What people tell me, especially on the survey that I just did when I asked, what was your biggest challenge actually when they moved? It's the terminology. We're just talking about the difference between branded content and content marketing and affiliate and all that. That's nothing like going into a bunch of acronyms at a corporation where, you know, everybody is used to using these terms and you don't know what they're talking about. That is the biggest hurdle, but frankly, if that has to be the biggest hurdle, like it's a good one because you can always Google it. You can always, you know, pretend that you know what you're doing or you know what, frankly, just fricking ask because. The idea is that they are bringing you in for your expertise, your expertise as a journalist, as a writer, as an editor. And maybe you don't know all of the marking terminology, or maybe you don't know what these acronyms stand for. So asking and learning, Oh, it's not that big of a deal.

Lixandra: So it's more of a mental challenge.

Chandra: Absolutely. I mean, most people who make the shift over, and I think that this is why their success rate and their happiness rate is so high. is because they can do the jobs. That's not the challenge. It's just knowing that terminology. And so it's just kind of like going into a different country and learning the language. And it takes a little bit to get acclimated. And you're going to feel a little unsure because you don't know maybe 100% of what they're talking about all the time. So, you know, you're just like any other new employee that's coming in. And, you know, it's hard because, you know, you're shifting outside of this industry that was so tight knit and it had its own language and its own terminology and whatever that we were very used to. It's just, it takes a little bit. So you just have to be patient with yourself and not be afraid to ask questions.

Lixandra: I was trained when I switched from women's magazines to healthcare advertising. I had to learn AMA style, that's the American Medical Association style of editing, and I learned it on the job. So I just want to point out that many companies are willing to train you.

Chandra: Well, they don't have any choice. If they want to get our goods, then they have to, right. They have to teach you the AMA. You know, if they want to get a really great medical researcher who knows what the heck they're doing, then it's like, okay, so then we'll, we'll teach them this little, you know, extra little thing within our industry.

Lixandra: Okay. Chandra, tell us about your services and where listeners can find you.

Chandra: So you can find me at the talent fairy.com. And follow me on social media. Um, no surprise. I live on LinkedIn. So please, um, come in and follow me or, you know, link in with me on, on the platform. And maybe we can have a sidebar conversation as well.

Lixandra: I saw that you have about 21,000 connections on LinkedIn. Wow. I think that's the most I've ever seen. Well, that is what I do. You know, that is what I do. Yeah. So you definitely have a great network. You also have events and offer career boot camps for editors throughout the year. How can listeners learn more about those?

Chandra: Check my website, follow me on LinkedIn. That's where I offer programming that I have coming up, whether I have mentoring programs, I have boot camps for editors trying to transition. I have lots of skills-based events that are going on. I also, every time that I'm hiring or anybody that I know is hiring, I share those job postings on my LinkedIn. I also have a job board on the Talent Ferry, so you can look at the jobs that are posted there.

Lixandra: Something that I've noticed about LinkedIn is when there is a big layoff in media, people are very open to connecting.

Chandra: That's the best part about LinkedIn. And I feel like it's been really lovely to editors recently and the tech community too. And all of these layoffs that have happened in the last six months. And I say, use it to your advantage. Like the sympathy, it only lasts for a couple of weeks until the next big layoff. So use it to your advantage and get that sympathy, reconnect with lots of people,

Lixandra: Yeah, and there are also LinkedIn groups for editors and content creators who have been laid off to share information.

Chandra: And jobs. And they're really good about sharing jobs, which is important.

Lixandra: Yeah. One group is called LinkedIn for Journalists. Another group is Magazine Editors Network. And I'll link those along with other resources in the show notes. All right, as we wrap up, do you have any last words for our listeners who are editors looking to make a career switch out of media?

Chandra: I mean, I feel like, you know, the most important thing is have the confidence that you can shift. And sometimes you just need to have conversations with people who have already made the shift, whether it's into. The exact kind of role that you want to move into or just something similar because you know where they came from and then you can see yourself in that. and asking questions. And especially for these types of people, you are journalists, you are editors, you're inquisitive people. So use that to your advantage and learn a little bit. And the more you learn, the more confident you're going to be. And the better you're going to come across in interviews, the more confident you're going to be when you're writing your letters of interest, all of those things. So I highly recommend that you reach out to other people and you know, there's lots of them out there.

Lixandra: Thanks to Chandra Turner for being our guest today. You can connect with her on LinkedIn and on her website, thetalentfairy.com. 

You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. 

So what's your career switch? Are you motivated to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know, along with any feedback you have about the show. Let us know too, if you'd like to be a guest. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at careerswitchpod. And please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.