27: From classroom to corporate: How a teacher transitioned out of education

Former high school teacher Tyler Banh certainly understands why so many teachers are leaving their profession nowadays.

In this episode of Career Switch Podcast, Tyler shares why he quit teaching in 2018 and the transferable skills he used to become a senior specialist in digital learning for a management consulting firm. He talks about the techniques he utilized to address his knowledge gaps, how he purposely took care of his physical and mental health while making his career switch, and how he’s giving back by helping other educators transition into corporate.


Resources:

LinkedIn group: Teaching: A Path to Learning and Development

Find more advice geared toward teachers in Episode 13: How to Market Yourself as a Career Changer

Music credit: TimMoor from Pixabay

Podcast info:
What's your career switch? What do you think about this episode and the show? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

Lixandra: Hi, everyone. I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you're considering or working on. Maybe you're trying to switch industries or professions or break out on your own and start a business. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on challenges that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. 

So, I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of advice that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

It's the start of the summer, school is out, and kids are on break. However, if you're a teacher, you may not be returning to your classroom in the fall. A poll from earlier this year found that 55% of public school teachers, administrators, and staff across the U.S. were planning to leave their field due to the stress from the pandemic. Former high school teacher Tyler Banh certainly understands why so many teachers are exiting the profession these days. 

In this episode, Tyler shares why he quit teaching in 2018 and the transferable skills he used to become a senior specialist in digital learning. He talks about the techniques he utilized to address his knowledge gaps, how he purposely took care of his physical and mental health while making his career switch, and how he's giving back by helping other educators transition out of teaching. 

Hi, Tyler, thanks for joining us today. Let's dive in. What were you doing before your career switch and what led up to it?

Tyler: Before my career switch, I was a high school math teacher in suburban Milwaukee, Wisconsin for four years. As much as I loved being a teacher, I ultimately left to save my own mental health. Every day I would see suffering from the students. And, um, you know, having gone through like four years of that, it kind of took its toll on me. And by the end of it, I just wasn't showing up the way that I needed to be for my students. And so that's when I decided that, you know, I was ready for the next part of my career.

Lixandra: When did you start teaching and when did you decide to leave?

Tyler: I started teaching in September of 2014. That was my first job out of college. I had graduated with a degree in secondary education. And then I had decided about halfway into my fourth year that it would be my final year of teaching. And that's when I left after the 2017-2018 school year.

Lixandra: When you talk about suffering, what did you experience?

Tyler: So my personal opinion is that in a school system, there are only two types of students who are celebrated. You have students who are academically gifted and you have students who are athletically gifted. So if you're one of those students, then your presence gets celebrated in the school. And if you're not one of those two types of students, then your presence is not celebrated. When I was a high school student myself, I had both of those things. So I had a very positive high school experience. And when I became a teacher, I realized that most students aren't in either of those two groups. So most students are forced to go to school for seven to eight hours a day. They don't want to be there. Their presence isn't celebrated. And that's probably why they don't want to be there. And so it leads to a lot of emotional and social behavior issues That's where I would determine the root cause is that their presence wasn't celebrated. And so that was really hard for me to see every day.

Lixandra: So when you decided that you were leaving, how did you start preparing to quit?

Tyler: The first thing that I wanted to make sure was that I was financially prepared. And so after I had decided about halfway through that fourth year that I was going to leave teaching, I stopped contributing to my 403B sometime in March so I could save more money. And then beyond that, I also taught summer school for, I think, six weeks to save up like even more money. And by doing those two things, I had at least six months of runway to fully devote all of my time to my career transition. You know, I didn't have to pick up another job throughout all this. I could really just spend all my time trying to find my next job.

Lixandra: Since you had studied secondary education in college, how did your family and friends take the news that you no longer wanted to be a teacher?

Tyler: They all understood, and I was fortunate to have that, because being a teacher is so tough. I had already felt guilty for leaving teaching, that I think I would have felt even worse if I was guilt-tripped into staying. So yeah, just being a teacher is tough. So my family and friends all understood, especially these past two years. I just don't know how I would have survived, given everything that's going on in the world. and how teachers were treated during this time. Like I think for any teacher who is trying to leave the system now, everyone would understand why they were trying to leave the education system.

Lixandra: So you quit in August 2018 before the school year started. What did you do after you left?

Tyler: I thought about where I want to go next. And the loose answer that I had in my mind at the time was like, I want to do teaching except for corporate. And I didn't know what that was called. I just had an idea. And then I found out that it was called learning and development. So then my answer changed to, I want to be in learning and development. Looking at all the different types of roles in learning and development, I came across the job title, instructional designer. And then I was like, I think that's what I want to do next. Like, I want to be an instructional designer in a learning and development department in a corporate company. And so from there, I was just making a plan to, to get that next job.

Lixandra: You said earlier that you gave yourself six months to transition out of teaching. What were those first few months like?

Tyler: I think I, I would probably just say like, I wasted my time during the first month. I had no idea what I was doing. I was really naive. I thought that like, you know, having done so much as a teacher that it would be pretty easy to get my next job. And I was very wrong about that. The first month was just like me applying to all different types of positions, like not just instructional designer, but like recruiting positions, project management positions. When I look back, I'm like, I would never be qualified for those roles, even, you know, with four years working in corporate. So I just don't know what I was thinking back then. So that was the first month. And then after that, I was like, you know, I got to do something different because obviously this isn't working. So I hired a professional resume writer, and he wrote my resume. And that was when I started to get interview requests. So I was like, okay, this is a positive change. So I spent about two months going through interviews and also trying to address all of the knowledge gaps that I had from being a teacher to becoming an instructional designer. I think the best thing that I did for myself was I looked at all the jobs that I was interested in applying to, and for every instructional designer job that I was interested in, I would make a two-column table. on the left column would be like, these are the skills that I already have. And then the right column would be like, these are the skills that I need to develop. So I would just read through all the job descriptions and I would take every bullet point and either put it in the left column or in the right column. And by the end of doing all this, it was pretty clear what I needed to address, which was one, understanding the difference between adult learning versus adolescent learning. And then two was learning enough e-learning authoring tools to call myself an instructional designer.

Lixandra: So how did you do on those interviews after you got your resume redone?

Tyler: Those interviews were rough. I bombed multiple interviews. I vividly remember like the first time I ever had to like BS an answer. And I knew that the interviewer knew that I was BSing and I just felt so uncomfortable. And the question was something like, tell me about a time that you had difficulty working with a subject matter expert. These days, as an instructional designer now, I'd be like, that's a cakewalk. That's a question you would expect in any instructional designer interview. I could easily answer that question now. But back then, I'm just really embarrassed to think about how I try to respond to that. And that was how a lot of my interviews went. I just didn't know how to answer those questions in a business context when I never worked in business before. I could only talk about my students or like what I did in the classroom, but instructional designers don't stand in front of people to teach. Their work is something else.

Lixandra: So what did you do to improve your interviews?

Tyler: One thing that really helped me out was trying to prepare myself by looking at like common instructional designer questions and then trying to at least get a star response for all those questions. So star being like the, you know, situation, task, action, and result. That way, if I heard a question on the interview, I could at least try to quickly look through my notes on the computer screen and be like, okay, here's the example that I have, and then just try to read it off and make it sound more natural. By the end of it, I would say my interviewing skills were passable, passable enough for me to get a job.

Lixandra: Did you try to network? For example, were any of your friends instructional designers?

Tyler: I did not have any friends who were instructional designers. I did have friends who helped me out that were already working in corporate in different roles, but they could only help me out to a certain extent because none of them knew what an instructional designer was. And I didn't reach out to any teachers who had transitioned to instructional designers because I just didn't think to do that at the time. When I mentioned earlier about how I wasted my first month, that's what I should have been doing is just finding people who had made the same transition and asking them for help, but I didn't.

Lixandra: For those who don't know, like me, what does an instructional designer do?

Tyler: In like a day-to-day kind of explanation, that would be like identifying business problems so that you can address like the learning needs for that population that needs to solve that business problem. Those types of learning solutions could be instructor-led trainings. They could be blended learning solutions. They could be coaching sessions. Whatever it is, it's to help employees do better at their job so that their company can make more money or they can hit their KPIs.

Lixandra: OK, so just by you telling me that, I can see the tie between teaching and instructional designing. How did you land your first job?

Tyler: I got really lucky from the hiring manager. She really valued what teachers do for students. And I could tell that by the way that she talked about like her own kids and like the respect she had for teachers. And so that's why I say I felt like I got lucky because without her having that perspective on teachers, I don't think I would have gotten my job. Most of the interviews that I went into, I felt like there was a bias against me that I was just a teacher. And I'm sure that any teacher who's trying to transition out now would face the same problem. It's the biggest obstacle to overcome is that trying to prove that you belong in corporate when you've never worked in corporate. It's an unfair situation. And at the same time, that's the reality. And so without my manager believing that I was capable, she would have to spend a little bit of extra time, like getting me up to speed. And it would take, you know, more of a time investment. Without her thinking all those things, I wouldn't have gotten my job.

Lixandra: How do you think your teaching skills transferred to this new job?

Tyler: So I think that the skills that I had from teaching that transferred the most was probably like the attention to detail overall, just like organization. As a teacher, you're responsible for 30 kids per class and you teach five classes a day. So that could be up to 150 students and each of those 150 students needs everything from you. And when it comes to the organization, it's like organizing your online gradebook, organizing your communications, like your email communications to students and parents. being on top of all the meetings that you have to set up outside of school hours, that organization is probably the most helpful skill that I was able to bring into my new job because in corporate, the work was slowed down so much that because I had this attention to detail before and now I entered a much slower environment, everything seemed really easy. And even these days, my jobs are really easy because I'm used to, you know, my first four years of my career being a teacher and like, always feeling like I was on fire and like running around and trying to put out different fires. And but now it's just like, I sit at my desk and do work and just click buttons on the computer. Like it's it's that easy.

Lixandra: And how long were you at that first job? And where did you go from there?

Tyler: I was at my first job as a junior instructional designer for about a year and a half, and then I got recruited to work at my second job, so I now work at Bain & Company, which is a management consulting firm. My title now is Senior Specialist, Digital Learning, so it's more of a broader title than what instructional designer was. I've been fortunate to navigate my career away from instructional design and more towards learning management systems and specifically learning experience platforms. These days, as a senior specialist in digital learning, the majority of my work is spent working with our learning experience platform. So that would be like configuring the LXP to host all of our content. configuring it with like our HR data to make sure that we have the right reports running, showing different stakeholders how they need to use the platform, showing our internal customers how they should be using the platform. That's the majority of my work these days.

Lixandra: One more thing I want to touch on quickly is you moved to make your career switch. Tell us about that.

Tyler: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So I did move from suburban Milwaukee, Wisconsin to the big city of Chicago. And the premise of that was just opportunity, right? So if I was going to work in corporate, then I should try to go somewhere where there's a lot of corporate jobs. And Chicago was the it was the most familiar Midwest city to me and the biggest one. There were plenty of jobs available. Whereas in suburban Wisconsin, like there aren't many, So it can be difficult for like anyone who's like, you know, living in a rural area or like a suburban area. Like if there's not a lot of jobs and it's very slim pickings.

Lixandra: Okay, so looking back, what are some challenges you had while making your career switch?

Tyler: Questioning my own ability or like my own worth. As a teacher, I didn't really do that much. I knew what I could bring to the table and who I was. But going through the career transition was one of the most humbling experiences of my own life. I'm sure anyone who has gone through their own career transition would say it's a very humbling experience. You really have to be strong to make it through.

Lixandra: Going back to the two-column table you used to address your knowledge gaps, was it a challenge when the left column was smaller than the right column?

Tyler: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, when I first started and that left column was pretty small of all the things that I knew how to do that was small and the right column of all the things I needed to know how to do was really big. It was overwhelming. And even these days when I'm helping other teachers, it's like, you need to have your resume right. You need to have your LinkedIn profile look right. You need to have a portfolio. And in order to have a portfolio, you need to learn all these tools. How do you even know where to start? So yeah, it was very overwhelming at first. That's where I benefited from my own deliberate planning of like, OK, now that I've got this list of knowledge, skills, and abilities that I need to address, How am I going to devote time to do each one of these things? Let's say I had eight hours in a day. I would say, OK, well, one of these hours, I need to exercise. And one hour, I need to read for personal enjoyment. So that's two hours. Okay, and then let's say I need four hours to practice a certain tool. And then let's see, that's like two hours left. So then I would spend like one hour applying for jobs, and then maybe like one hour connecting with other people and like trying to ask my friends for help. So eight hours a day, like from nine to five, I would work on my career transition. And once five o'clock stopped, like I would do, you know, whatever else I want to do.

Lixandra: Wow, that sounds pretty healthy. So what three tips do you have for our listeners who are working on making their career switch, especially other teachers who are trying to transition like you did?

Tyler: The first tip that I would have would be like, figure out exactly what you want to do next. It needs to be like narrowed down to like one job title, if possible. What I said earlier about having to overcome this obstacle of having never worked in corporate but trying to get a job in corporate, that's already a huge obstacle. You need to focus on that one job title that you're trying to get. That job description is going to be your map. X marks the spot. The second tip I would have would be look at multiple job descriptions for that one job that you want. One thing that I always say to the teachers that I work with is the job description is always right. So if I'm giving advice or they hear advice from someone else and it's conflicting, then I would just say, look at the job description. That will tell you who's right and who's not. And if I said something and it's not on the job description, then I was wrong. Those job descriptions are truly like the map for what they want. What are the skills that you need to have? What are the responsibilities you're going to have in this role? All of those things are literally right in front of you on the job description. So when you look at, you know, let's say five job descriptions for instructional designers, you should have a pretty clear picture of like, what do instructional designers do? What are the skills they have? What are their responsibilities that they have? My third tip would be make a plan to address your physical and mental health during your career transition. You and I were talking about that earlier, about my eight hours a day. I would spend one hour exercising and one hour reading because I knew that those were positive things for my physical and mental health. there were multiple days where I just felt like crap and I felt like, you know, completely defeated. And so when I think back to that time and like how a strong person like myself felt really weak during, during those times, I can't imagine like how much worse it would have been if I didn't address my physical and mental health during those times.

Lixandra: Great. And as we wrap up, you now help other teachers transition into learning and development with another former teacher, Raven Wilson.

Tyler: Yeah, Raven, Wilson, I are both mentors for a LinkedIn group called teaching a path to learning and development. We pride ourselves on like providing free content and advice and like office hours to any teacher who's interested in making the career transition. One of the things that I really liked when I read about the Career Switch podcast was like, you wanted to give back. And that's exactly like what teaching a path to learning development is about. When I help other teachers get their next job, all that I ask is that when they get their job, that they will help the next teacher that's looking for their job.

Lixandra: Thanks to Tyler Banh for being our guest today and for giving back. Check out his LinkedIn group, Teaching a Path to Learning and Development. And if you're a teacher and want more advice, listen to episode 13, which uses a teacher as a real life example for how to market yourself as a career changer. 

You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. So what's your career switch? Are you motivated to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know, along with any feedback you have about the show. Let us know too, if you'd like to be a guest. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn at careerswitchpod. And please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.